Welcome to WE SERVE NO MASTER Issue #2: FERAL FUTURE. Do not fear for ravens will save you if you fall. This issue honors those of us who walk between this world and the next.  Join us for INTERVIEWS, REVIEWS, MUSIC, ART and anything else we can get away with. We are Cliff and Ivy, Alaska’s only goth band. We bring you goth, deathrock, art, and punk realness from the extreme darkness of the frozen north. Contents of ISSUE 2 FERAL FUTURE House of Extreme Darkness and Cliff and Ivy 2014 (c)
Wanna be in we serve no master? email us your goth, punk, weird music, art, photos, scene reports, poems, lyrics or stories! ages 18 and over only! we are a quarterly digital zine, which we promote the hell out of! please be a dear and like us on facebook if you are submitting something.





In this issue we bring you a motivational interview with the legendary industrial drummer, author, artist, and now educator MARTIN ATKINS (PIL, Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Killing Joke, Pigface, Invisible Records). CHRIS DESJARDINS, filmmaker and member of legendary punk bands THE FLESH EATERS and THE DIVINE HORSEMEN, inspires us with a great interview about his experiences and what is going on NOW. PRAYERS SD (from San Diego) are sharing their viewpoint on keeping the dark GOTH flame alive through their music and art.
BODIES IN PANIC are a legendary hard core punk band from 1980s era New Jersey. They share their stories of original east coast hardcore PUNK, how the hardcore scene was made, and they have a reunion show coming up too. This band is great and it’s high time we knew more about what makes them tick! IZZY (ANDREA GIBSON) is an artist and vocalist from the Vancouver BC punk scene! She shares what makes art important. There’s featured videos and images as well, so let yourself live a little and open your eyes to your feral future!

You can hear all the bands featured in WE SERVE NO MASTER on our  internet radio show EXTREME DARKNESS WITH CLIFF AND IVY, Join us for chat on Sunday nights on WICKED SPINS RADIO






Martin Atkins Motivates. Illustration by Ivy Silence

Martin Atkins’ contribution to punk, industrial and aggressive drumming cannot be denied. Martin has played drums for the legendary PIL, Killing Joke, Ministry, and Nine Inch Nails. His collaborative project PIGFACE stands as the definition of getting a bunch of like minded freaks together to make something beautifully insane. He is a writer of several how-to style books about do it yourself- covering all aspects of touring and band promotion for those who want to learn how to make things happen. Martin is also an educator, teaching college courses about the creative music industry.

When were you sure you would be doing art/music creating for the rest of your life? Was there a certain event that showed you this?

Nope – not really – looking back it seems I’ve been doing this (amongst a few other things) all my life.  I think there are creative people – who just sit in a room and create – and there are other people that find a way to make their creativity a part of what they are doing most of the time – and that creativity is then out on the world without fanfare or a special occasion. I just felt like emphasizing that – I didn’t decide to have art shows every week or music events (although that was a BIG part of stuff) I just do my thing – and things intersect and collide and lead to other things. There was no decision – i think that at anytime when i had a choice to do something more difficult, time consuming and probably more expensive but more fun and creative – i pretty much always chose that path.

 You’ve played with many groundbreaking musician and bands. Is there one that you especially learned a lot from through your involvement with them? What was great about it and what was difficult?

I’d like to think I learned from everyone that I worked with (otherwise what’s the point?) from Lunar Bear Ensemble and John Richey I learned that there can be a flux with a BUNCH of musicians and that there aren’t necessarily any rules – that became a RULE with Pigface. From Killing Joke my experience was different – I started to manage, learned Big Paul’s beats – they were different from the rhythms and style I had before – it definitely changed my drumming vocabulary.

You have made collaboration into an art and science. What makes working with collaborative groups great?

New energy, unexpected ideas from places you wouldn’t think. If you can turn off your own insecurity and fear for a while and listen – good things can happen. I learned that even though someone can program/create whatever any part with any instrument – they are creating from the starting point of their own brain their own experiences – by plugging in with other people you can get to some really interesting stuff.

I know our readers enjoy your motivating statements! What are your top three? (Ex: get the fuck out of bed, etc) How do you come up with these things?

One of my social media phrases is “think like a t-shirt!” if you do that – maybe your ideas will be a little more memorable. I fish around for these in the classroom too so that I can communicate my ideas and hopefully have them stick. ‘Free is the new black’ ‘if the chorus of your song doesn’t belong on a t-shirt then maybe it doesn’t belong in the chorus of your song”

I think its writing a lot and trying to find the phrase that gets you in – and then putting a social media twist on it…some are a little alarming

“Hey, know what’s great about that new song you’re working on??? NOTHING – work on something else!”

Some are just trying to be personal in a depersonalized way and play with that- “You are awesome – kick the world in the face!” That kind of thing.  Messing around with how personal you can get by being totally impersonal – and how weird that is – like a form letter gone wrong wrong wrong – its still weirdly supportive.

 It’s 3014. Archaeologists have discovered a cache of your writing, art and music, almost perfectly preserved! What do they find? And, what do they write in their history books about you? 

I think I’d be some kind of idiot, ego maniac asshole if I thought they’d write anything…..and if they did it’d probably be something completely disconnected and ridiculous – like ‘this guy threw blueberry muffins during lectures!”

What’s an average day like for Martin Atkins?

So far there hasn’t been one. There is usually some kind of large project deadline looming in the background – Band:Smart is officially killing me I think – two years passed due date from my Kickstarter almost – it keeps growing and changing and getting better and more focused – but it is coming at a great cost – cant wait to get it DONE and OUT!!

Right now I’m typing while waiting for my two youngest (of four) to finish breakfast so i can drop them off at school. There is some routine at SAE – but its my job to break that up as much as possible – today Alex Fruchter has a guest from Atlantic Records in his class – so I’m allowing other classes in Music Business to ditch out and see what is up with that – it can get crazy – but once you establish the guidelines – students and real world experiences come first – it gets easier.

I think any time i sense my days becoming average – i do something about it.

What would you say brings you the most comfort in life?

recently I’ve been wondering about drumming – I’ve been doing it since i was 9 and i think it creates a stability in my ADD brain – i haven’t done enough recently. Overall though – its about my kids these days – either my 4 or the scores more that come through the school

What do you consider your finest, and/or most odd, achievement?

there have been a few – it seems nuts that I was on American Bandstand – such an iconic TV show – or that they used some of my music on the opening ceremony of the Olympics in the UK in 2012. Surviving as an entrepreneur in this business for so long – maaaan, that seems impossible

What’s one thing that you think all musicians today should be doing but are not doing?

Lots of small things – but mainly running their own businesses – not blaming anyone or complaining because they don’t have _____ or _______. Just getting on and doing it – working for 5 + years to become an overnight sensation. There is a lot of chicken and the egg – lots of artists think they need a lawyer, manager and agent BEFORE anything can happen – these people happen after you have already made huge strides on your own.

Can you catch me and our readers up on your most recent teaching engagements?

I’m the Dept Chair of Music Business at SAE Chicago – I’m shredding the curriculum and making it REAL!! I’m speaking all over the world these days – I was just asked to be a featured speaker at 2015’s SXSW – this will be my 8th in a row!

What’s great about being a music educator?

Making a difference, allowing all of the years (35?) to inform someone’s ideas and trajectory – without dampening enthusiasm or the possibility of being surprised by someone else’s ideas and energy. Its also been awesome for myself – without teaching social media for the last 6+ years I might not have stayed immersed in it – teaching and lecturing have provided me with a way of organizing thoughts into lectures and some of that starts to coagulate together – either as ‘bits’ for speaking events or books etc

Why is education the next punk rock?

There are no new permutations of ideas on the rock stage – just remixes – the field of education has been neglected and is ripe for the application of punk rock ideology – question everything, find a new way, always ask why! Its the same fight as it ever way – new ideas vs. the establishment – not just what is taught – but how – pretty cool – flipping classes, NOT being the provider of information but the igniter of discussions, a facilitator if you like – letting go of the traditional roles and allowing the students to make choices. There are so many new and amazing ideas – that are being so infrequently applied – the field is wide open!



Chris Desjardin, 1979

CHRIS D is touring with THE FLESH EATERS, JANUARY 2015 in celebration of the re-issue of A MINUTE TO PRAY A SECOND TO DIE! You can see tour dates here:

CHRIS D’s voice has been in my head literally for the last 34 years. I first discovered THE FLESH EATERS via a record store on the east coast and these iconic tracks have been go-to for me to this day. We are so pleased to get to know him better through this interview and researching his additional music projects (THE DIVINE HORSEMEN) and film work. CHRIS D is a true LA punk legend and has influenced many with his charismatic vocal performances. CHRIS D found his expression in writing and has extended to acting and film. He is also an educator who shares his real experience with film studies students.

What came first for you, writing or music?

Writing. I’ve been writing stories since the 7th or 8th grade.

Are there any writers, books or other written creative works that influenced your writing early on?  

My earliest influences were sci-fi writers like A.E. Van Vogt and Cordwainer Smith and horror/ghost story writers such as Poe, J. Sheridan LeFanu, Algernon Blackwood and H.P. Lovecraft. Then William Burroughs and French symbolists Lautreamont, Huysman and Baudelaire. Then later hardboiled writers like Chandler, Hammett and James M. Cain, then Jim Thompson and David Goodis.

When did you know that you would be involved in punk music?

I think the first time I knew, “Hey, I can do this,” was when the Brit/Aussie punk invasion started happening. I got imports of LPs by the Pistols, the Damned, the Clash and the Saints in mid 1977.

Was there an influential event or circumstance?

Well, I’d had a band in high school around 1969 or so that only lasted about 2 weeks. But I was already influenced by a lot of garage bands as well as some groups like the Stones, Steppenwolf, the Stooges, MC5, Jeff Beck, Cream, The Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, Ten Years After. The influences continued in the early 70s what with more Stooges, the New York Dolls and Bowie’s Ziggy/Aladdin Sane/Diamond Dogs era. It’s kind of amazing it took until late 1977 for me to start a band, but that Brit punk explosion and writing record reviews and live reviews for Slash magazine stoked the embers into full blown flames.

What was the best live gig you did with The Flesh Eaters, and what made it great?

That is impossible to say. Each line-up I’ve had with the band from 1977 through 2000 (and in 2006 when we did a few Minute to Pray reunion gigs) has been special in their own way. The Minute to Pray group was classic. The Forever Came Today/Hard Road to Follow line-up was tight as a drum and a lot of fun because we got to tour with that configuration in mid-1982. I also loved the later line-ups from 1998-2000. The line-up for the 2004 Miss Muerte CD never played live, which is a pity as I think it is one of the best Flesh Eaters albums.

What was your greatest experience with The Divine Horsemen?

Once again that is an almost impossible question to answer. I think my favorite recordings were the demo songs we did in 1985 – a couple of those, “Little Sister” (the longer electric version) and “If Only I Could” showed up on the Middle of the Night LP, then a few more, including my favorite version of “Tenderest Kiss”, showed up on the Time Stands Still CD reissue from Atavistic that came out in 2004. The Snake Handler LP-line- up, which went on tour twice in 1987, was I think the most fun I had doing live shows.

And as a solo performer?

I never performed as a solo act. It was always with The Flesh Eaters or Divine Horsemen (even the early DH days were billed as Chris D./Divine Horseman). The one solo album I did in 1995, Love Cannot Die, I never performed any of that material in a live venue.

You’ve done extensive work researching and writing about yakuza films. What’s one thing that directors of these works do that every film maker/director could learn from?

It kind of depends on which studio turned them out. The two biggest producers of Japanese gangster pictures were Toei and Nikkatsu. Toei’s films from the 1960s through the early 1970s were notable for their very complex webs of deep character interaction. Nikkatsu’s pictures from the late 1950s through 1971 were famous for their very bold, colorful visual compositions that married production design, editing and action choreography into fast-moving action thrillers.

How did you first become involved as an actor?

I did some acting in high school and college. A friend of mine, John S. who I went to university with, was a screenwriter and called me to play the part of a punk singer in a movie he’d written called Radioactive Dreams. That’s how I got a SAG card. Unfortunately the movie never got released. It showed on the USA Network a couple of times, I think. Most of my part, which was only about 5 minutes to begin with, ended up on the cutting room floor and when it was in the finished film ran only 10 or 15 seconds. I never even got to see the whole film all the way through. The first time I got to do some real acting was when Allison Anders, Kurt Voss and Dean Lent were collaborating on their first feature, Border Radio (which I think began filming in 1985?) and I was cast as one of the four leads.

I know our readers will want to know more about what it was like to work alongside stars like Gene Hackman and Kevin Costner, and any of the other interesting people you have worked with…

Oh, on No Way Out…I never had a scene with Gene Hackman and never got to even meet him. I socialized with Kevin Costner a bit and was friendly on the set with some of the other actors like Will Patton and Marshall Bell. More recently, in 2001, I had a part in a crime thriller called Double Deception that co-starred James Russo and Udo Kier, but we weren’t in any scenes together, so I didn’t get to meet them either.

You wrote and directed the independent horror film I Pass for Human (2004). What would you say to the independent horror directors of today?

Jettison the obnoxious flash cutting that completely makes action sequences incomprehensible. Get rid of the bleach filters that either give everything a golden hue or a bluish pallor. Stop casting bland anonymous-looking model type automatons instead of real people. A perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary horror films: look at the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which is a masterpiece – I never get sick of watching it or fail to be scared by it – and compare it to the extremely boring, extremely crappy Michael Bay-produced remake from the early 2000s. That, in a nutshell, tells the sad sate of affairs that represents a lot of today’s horror films. Of course there are exceptions. The Aussie film The Snowtown Murders from 2011 is an example of a great, really disturbing horror film based on a true story.

What do you find the most satisfying about teaching film studies?

I’m no longer teaching at the moment, but it was very satisfying to turn kids onto great films they’d never heard of. One thing that was shocking, a lot of kids (we’re talking in the 18 to 22 year old range) had no idea who some very famous old Hollywood stars were, people like Joan Crawford, Cary Grant, Bette Davis, Robert Mitchum, James Stewart let alone universal icons like Bogart and Sinatra! If you’re over 40, these are people you pretty much take for granted still being household names, especially if you’re a film buff.

What’s the most challenging thing?

Avoiding budget shortfalls which can lose you your job, especially when the school where you are teaching doesn’t have film history studies as a major and the classes you are teaching are offered as “electives”, in other words non-essentials a student can take to fill up their credits for graduation. This happened to me just about a year ago, losing the job after 5 good years because the school located in San Francisco could no longer afford to fly me up there once a week. So if there are any representatives of institutes of higher learning in southern California reading this who need a good, qualified film history/film genre instructor, I’m your man.

What’s one thing that musicians of today should be doing but are not doing?

Listening to all different kinds of music, including classical, jazz, ethnic and older pop music. You don’t have to like everything you hear but you may surprise yourself and find out some 1940s or 50s blues or folk or 1950s, 60s or 70s country or jazz or R&B relates to some melody you’ve cooked up and gives you a fresh perspective. One thing I hate about most contemporary pop from alternative rock to opposite extremes like hardcore punk thrash or hardcore rap is that 90% of the bands have absolutely zero knowledge of other music genres, very, very narrow parameters of influences.

What is an average day like in the life of Chris D?

Up until about a year ago I was writing everyday but then I hit a writer’s block, with the newest novel not worked on since then and only halfway done. I’ve written some song lyrics recently that I go hot and cold on, but that’s about it. I’ve been isolating, pretty much a recluse, and I like to take a lot of naps – hah! – when I’m not watching movies. I’m still in SAG and usually get a couple days a month work as an extra on commercials.  Could definitely use more work, though! For the unaware out there, I published a massive anthology of my poetry, lyrics and dream journal entries called A Minute to Pray, A Second to Die in 2009, then between 2009 – 2013 published 5 novels, 1 short story collection and a massive encyclopedia about 1955-1980 era Japanese gangster films called Gun and Sword. Go out and buy! Because I’ve made only a pittance doing this (of course money isn’t my motivation). Here is the link to my Amazon author’s page:

What brings you comfort?

As Al Green might put it, Love and Happiness.

Your music has been so iconic to us. Are there any plans for The Flesh Eaters at present?  

I’ve talked to a couple of the Minute to Pray line-up and I’m hoping we may do some shows in early 2015. But it’s by no means a done deal because everyone’s so busy with their own bands. I would like to record another album at some point, but am not sure when or under what name. Sometimes I feel like I’d want to do it as the Flesh Eaters, sometimes as Divine Horsemen and sometimes as something altogether new and different. In any case, it wouldn’t be until next year at the earliest, I am sure.

Editor’s Note: This makes me extremely happy, I would absolutely love to see them live!

ChrisPhotoCOPY on 2014-02-13 at 22#2

Chris Desjardin, 2014

Get the works of CHRIS D!





Prayers SD, Anubis, and the eternal inspiration of darkness. Illustration by Ivy Silence

Prayers SD, Anubis, and the eternal inspiration of darkness. Illustration by Ivy Silence

Rafael Reyes, vocalist, lyricist, writer and artist shares what’s important about transformation and realizing the power within. PRAYERS SD, from San Diego, are a goth duo (Reyes and musical collaborator Dave Parley) with a powerful electronic stripped down sound. Their beats and lyrics come forth with messages of isolation, inspiration, break-through, and finding your art. PRAYERS SD are KILLWAVE as they are breaking stereotypes and urging their audience to look within to find the true power in life. This is modern goth with roots in classic death rock, electro goth, dark poetry and personalities from the past; PRAYERS SD also describes their music as CHOLO GOTH!  Embracing the goth sensibility with an unapologetic style is a big part of PRAYERS SD.  GOTHIC SUMMER is their latest release, and they have played shows on both US coasts to enthusiastic audiences who are treated to an experience they will never forget. Their songs are focused on spiritual aspects of oneself, with titles like FROM DOG TO GOD. If you listen to their EP you will also find yourself singing along as there will be a little bit of YOU in every song.

When were you sure that you would do art/music/creative works for the rest of your life? Was there a particular event that showed you this?

I wish I had a simple answer for this question. I’ve been creating for as long as I can remember but in 2007 when I got out of jail, I decided it was time to give my art the chance and respect it deserves. 2007 was a turning point for me, for that’s the year I decided to commit to my truth. I had rediscovered myself and I was in love for the first time with my world and with every little thing that had shaped and molded me. I am honoring and celebrating my life and the experience that is life through my musick, my writing and my paintings.

What or who are the strongest influences upon your art/music?

My influences are Rozz Williams of Christian Death, Aleister Crowley, Aubrey Beardsley and my father Alfonso Reyes for he was my altar.

What is goth to you?

Goth to me is the mysterious beauty who elegantly and gracefully enchants the night.

What is Killwave?

KILLWAVE is about breaking stereotypes. I am KILLWAVE.

What’s the thread that ties all your work together through time?

Its honesty, humility, vulnerability and its unyielding presence!

What brings you the most comfort?

Results bring me comfort. As a magician results are the fruit of my labor.

What’s an average day like for Prayers?

No average Days, our life is far from it… We are dedicated to our craft everyday is spent breaking stereotypes and challenging everything we have learned, heard or seen.

What would you tell the goth musician/artist of today about creativity?

It’s out there. Live life, let it hurt you, let it love you. Don’t fear it- allow yourself to be consumed by everything life has to offer- creativity lives there. It’s all around you.

Please share one thing that artists (meaning musicians, writers, visual artists) today should do but are not doing, in your opinion.

Honesty! Especially when it comes to what their true desires and intentions are. What’s the reason behind what you do, is it to get laid? Is it to be rich, famous? Or is it because without it you can’t be.

You’ve had some great shows recently. Can you share some highlights?

Opening up for the CULT in San Francisco. Walking on that stage (The Regency Ballroom) and hearing people singing our songs it was humbling and powerful….. Results!

What’s your stage gear list?

My band mate Dave Parley plays the MPC 5000 and I use the KP3 by KORG for my vox.

Please share what’s next for you.

Results !




Izzy Andrea  – Andrea Lee Gibson (from Vancouver BC) shares her artist’s statement- manifesto and manifestation!

Bonitos Cover 

Explaining art is like trying to explain a bicycle to a fish. I never went to fine art school. I took some animation classes, tried and failed many pieces and was, and am, still told how I create is wrong. But that’s what I love about it. I can make anything I want, people can yell and scream how “wrong” it is ‘till the cows come home and yet… it still exists. It’s like people. You can scream how wrong they until you’re blue in the face but they’re still people. And the ones that make you the most upset are usually the ones that shape your opinion the most, whether it be to mimic or avoid it.

I never make a “batch” of “work”. I create pictures when I want, in what ever medium I want, on what ever subject I want because I do it from my soul and my soul can’t be told, “For this show we have a ‘Cartoon Cloud’ theme.

I avoid doing that in order to keep my pictures… well… pictures, rather than work. I try to be honest. Most of art, such as media, or even art shows, is corralled into a central idea. I will gladly take an idea and run with it but detest borders on how far I can go.

I did a collaborative art show (The last one I will ever do) where the theme was “Space Invaders”. We were told to portray the misuse of space in the world or have a Space Invaders video game-like feel. I painted a giant boxy robot standing on the hillside of a cemetery during a sunset storm. My point of that painting was that cemeteries are a misuse of space for robotic emotions we are told to portray and how cemeteries are just a place to feel emotionless, if anything, remorse that we feel alone and empty, like the space that then surrounds us. Even with the write up I was told by the promoters of the show that I didn’t adhere to the curriculum of the show, which was filled with talented pieces… but mostly throwbacks to the Space Invaders video game. They still showed the piece as how they didn’t have another submission to fill the space. I was not aware that there was such a thing as thinking too outside of the box, let alone, over thinking the box. I sold the piece. I then vowed I would never do another art show.

So here I sit, a social hermit, in my North Vancouver apartment on top of a giant pile of my art work. I sell some pieces occasionally to friends who stop buy and offer money but mostly give it away to those who really connect with a piece.

I never assumed I would make a living off of my art. (Hell, if you want to make your parents cry, tell them you want to be a musician… if you want to make them cry for 32 years, tell them your back up plan is a freelance artist.) I do art because I tried desperately to stop and couldn’t. My emotions and mental well-being work visually. It’s a very naked feeling but very comforting to find I’m not the only one who feels as I do.

So in a world of Photoshop, computer masterpieces and nervous wreck artists straining to make every line perfect as they pull their hair out at 22, I sit happily buried at the bottom of the pyramid with my pens, pencils, paints and whatever I can get my hands on to create art with and shrug off perfection. After all, isn’t the point of making art to show our imperfections?

Created with Microsoft Fresh Paint

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PSH was the man


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 New Jersey Hardcore Legends Bodies In Panic are set to do a reunion show at the Court Tavern Nov 15th 2014 New Brunswick, New Jersey.

Who’s playing and what can you tell us about the history of the band?

Kyle Eaves BIP: The band started in 1983, Gavin posted an ad in the Aquarian magazine. Greg Walker and Mike Pek and Kyle Eaves all answered the ad and the band was started.We played lots of shows over the next 3 or 4 years and 13 different guys played in the band at various times. We did a US tour in the summer of 85 and the band reformed when we returned, with Chris Jensen guitar, Bill Lawson bass and Mark Empire (Watson) drums.The line-up for the re-union show will be: Kyle, Gavin, Chris and Mark. We are thrilled to be playing with Pleased Youth and Cyanamid, who we played with many times back in the day. The Court Tavern is an old haunt too, so I am wondering what it looks like more than 25+ years later. As today is 9-11, I would like to say RIP to our brother Wayne Russo, who was murdered at the WTC (World Trade Center attack, 9/11/2001) . Wayne was the drummer on our only album. We have about 10 songs for the re-union show. One will be a new song that we are working on.


Kyle Eaves BIP : Wayne was a great guy. Upbeat attitude and always enjoyed helping others. Don’t know anyone who would say anything bad about Wayne.

We were lucky enough to see a few hardcore show with BIP Greg and Gavin on bass and Wayne of NJ punk band Stetz.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I was also in Stetz for a while.

Very cool yes closely related with Greg Walker of Pleased Youth also.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Greg Walker also sang in Stetz once. Stetz probably had about 8 or 9 guys in the band at different times.

Please recall any favorite stories or shows.

Kyle Eaves BIP :Wayne, Brian Somer and FranK Mehringer were the core of the band, especially Brian and Wayne.
I remember once at Anthrax on CT, the crowd picked me up and I was in the ceiling for a few minutes. In our first show, Greg’s drum stick kept flying out of his hand. We were all very nervous. In Minneapolis, we played in a driveway and there was a decent crowd. Cops came and shut us down after about 20 minutes. The cops stopped us another time in Baltimore about maybe 15 minutes in. We were playing in an old abandoned building and there was a great crowd for that show. Bummer. We played Baltimore 3 or 4 times and there were always lots of enthusiastic people. Made it fun. We played with many great bands over the years, mostly at City Gardens and the Dover Show Place, but there were many shows all over the place. It is hard to remember them all. CBGBs was always great too. Another time in Lehigh Valley PA, Catasaqua Playground, we were doing a big show and I had a cold and blew out my voice about half way into the show. Mark was drumming at the time and he sang until I could drink something and then I frogged my way to the end.

Mark Empire BIP : I have a tape of BIP on WPRB w/Kyle doing frog vocals all the way through.

Kyle Eaves BIP : We had several shows in a short time I think winter of 85 and I had a bad cold. The Show must go on. I also remember BIP in ’85 rehearsal at the infamous New Brunswick NJ Rubber Room where our band Dolphin Room rehearsed at as well.

Hearing your version of Hendrix Foxy Lady ruled.

Mark Empire BIP : Yeah, a punk band covering Hendrix. Not something you see every day.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Any shows that stood out to you Mark?

Mark Empire BIP : Well, the first one was pretty memorable, opening up for the Dead Kennedys @ the Showplace in Dover. I think they were touring behind Frankenchrist. The hippie bikers that ran the place were letting kids in without checking ID, and then checking their ID’s once they were in and throwing out anyone underage. I remember walking in the door with drums under my arm and the guy at the door’s like, “That’ll be $5 please”. I remember everyone sitting on the floor during our set like scouts around a campfire. As the night went on, fight after fight started breaking out. The DK’s were awesome. Darren, their drummer, was drinking Jack Daniels straight from the bottle and had to be carried onstage, and then played flawlessly for the entire set. It was like watching a tornado. Right after they were done, Jello goes, “I hope you people learned something tonight other than engaging in some bullshit macho ritual” and walked off. Classic.
Definite culture shock, I can tell you that. My previous gig six months prior was like Teen Night at some Central Jersey club playing covers, and then this.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Welcome to the big leagues.

Mark Empire BIP : Second gig was CBGB’s two weeks after that, opening for Suicidal Tendencies, who were going under the alias of Institutionalized. Almost stepped in a seemingly fresh 6 foot wide pool of blood loading in, 11 am on a Sunday. Pretty standard for the time, I guess. Apparently a knife fight had just occurred, according to the lady who let us in. I remember her complaining about having to mop it up because it was “probably crawling with AIDS”.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Blood is being splattered the walls are turning red.

Mark Empire BIP : The jury’s still out on the headless penguin, though. BTW, Kyle, they cleaned up the Court a bit. No more 30-year-old stale vomit smell in the back stairwell. I don’t know, it’s not the same.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Never had much of a sense of smell and that comes in handy sometimes.

Mark Empire BIP : Well then you probably wouldn’t notice. It’s still a cool place though, it’s under new ownership now.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Mike Pek orginally wrote chickens without heads and I made it magical by switching it to penguins.

Mark Empire BIP : Penguins are pretty magical, I’ll give you that.

Kyle Eaves BIP : amen

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Mark were you familiar with the DKs before that show?

Yeah, if you count some kid on my bus playing Too Drunk to Fuck on his boombox once.

Mark Empire BIP: So, let’s see, other shows…oh yeah, there was the time we played the Eutaw Club in Baltimore during a blizzard, and there was no heat in Bill’s van going there and also none in the club and both my feet were numb during the gig and pretty much didn’t thaw out ’til we got home.

Kyle Eaves BIP : The first DK song I heard was Holiday in Cambodia in about 1980 and I was properly amazed and wanted to hear more.

Mark Empire BIP : I wasn’t really familiar with punk rock generally speaking. I knew who the bands were, what they looked like and all that, but didn’t own any of the records. I was too much of a 60’s and 70’s rock fan to care, honestly. Pretty much despised pop culture in general when I joined BIP. But, BIP allowed me to play like Keith Moon to my heart’s content, so…

Kyle Eaves BIP : What did you think overall of the DKs when you saw them that first time? I saw them first at the Whiskey in Hollywood.
Talk about a mosh pit.

Mark Empire BIP : Still hands down the best punk show I’ve ever seen. The energy coming off that stage was frightening.

Kyle Eaves BIP : They were a big influence on me, no doubt. Liked the speed of the music and it was finely textured with clever lyrics

Mark Empire BIP : Oh yeah, they set the standard in punk rock for me. I didn’t really appreciate it at the time, but I certainly did later on, especially from the late 90’s onward.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I am interested in what bands that you started to listen to and like once you became aware of what was out there?

Mark Empire BIP : it took me a while to see past the shit that I grew up on, even though I was getting into other stuff like new age and thrash and hardcore and regular metal. Some folk and jazz as well. You know how some people say they listen to everything but not really? I actually do. Over the years, the bands I got into ran the gamut from Michael Hedges to Slayer and Eno and the Stooges and on and on.

I can totally hear the Dead Kennedy’s influence in BIP but what other bands influenced you guys?

Mark Empire BIP : and of course hip hop which I’m doing currently

Kyle Eaves BIP : My major influences that shaped my hardcore ear were: DKs, Minor Threat, Plasmatics, Ramones and the B52s

Mark Empire BIP : Bill and Chris and I were always jamming Hendrix, Kiss and Zeppelin covers during sound checks.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Bill liked Roxy Music.

Mark Empire BIP : Utopia, too. He let me borrow Swing to the Right once.  We weren’t really all that punk, were we?

Kyle Eaves BIP : No more classic rock, but I think all f you and Jeff Webb came around in time and appreciated some of the better bands

Mark Empire BIP : Yeah it definitely helped shape what I did later on, once I got bored with that other stuff
i wouldn’t say they were better per se, it was just different genres.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I am not as diverse as you. I like lots of stuff, but there is some stuff I try to avoid.

11650023 Edit 1

What’s one thing today’s musicians should be doing but are not doing ?

Mark Empire : I don’t avoid anything much. i used to be the exact opposite. i spent my youth hating whatever was going on around me and pining for some distant imagined “better time” in music and blah blah. i went through my “you kids don’t know good music” phase very early on.

Kyle Eaves BIP : It pays to keep an open mind more times than not.

Mark Empire : Stop playing “follow the money” when they’re writing songs.

Kyle you spent time in Los Angeles in the early 80s why did you leave ?

Kyle Eaves BIP : I was in the LA area from 79 to 81. It was great and I learned a lot, but I missed my friends and family. I was kind of on my own out there and it was time to move on. I brought what I experienced back to NJ and BIP.

Mark Empire BIP : there are plenty of artists who do that now, though

Kyle Eaves BIP : what money?

Mark Empire BIP ; well it’s more proverbial money nowadays I suppose.

11650018 Edit 111650020 Edit 111650013 Edit 1

What’s special about NJHC and is HARDCORE dead ?

Mark Empire BIP : I don’t know and probably not.

Mark Empire BIP : Yeah NJ tends to stifle creativity in my experience. you kinda have to go elsewhere for inspiration
penguins were a thing in the 80’s.

It’s the year 3014- Archaeologists have found a stash of BIP music …what do they learn from it ?

Kyle Eaves BIP : They learn to say holly crap those guys played really fast!!!

Mark Empire BIP : and had penguin fetishes

Kyle Eaves BIP : that too proud creature

Mark Empire BIP : Penguin Fetish would make a great band name. Maybe that could be a BIP tribute band

Kyle Eaves BIP : I hope not

Mark Empire BIP : OK then I’ll have to tour as Mark Empire’s Penguin Fetish.

Kyle Eaves BIP : When I listened to the tape Chris emailed me I was shocked at how fast we played. I have not heard it in quite a few years and it took me a few listens for my brain to catch up
Mark Empire BIP : Yeah, I honestly didn’t realize how fast we were going till I listened back to the recordings afterwards.

I swear I heard a rumor Fred works on Sesame street as a puppeteer. We booted Fred out of our band Lesser KooDoo cause he was creeping our singer out cause she was wearing a coconut bra and Fred couldn’t keep his hands off her coconuts. True story.

Gavin Von Em BIP : One thing that was special about NJxHC was that early on, we were between two big scenes, in New York and Philadelphia, that tended to siphon off ambitious people and bands — so in a way, we had tremendous access to resources from the beginning. We never had to invent our own thing in isolation the way kids did in Alaska. But at the same time, we never considered ourselves part of those other scenes. We weren’t content here in northern NJ just to be a satellite of New York, and insisted on building something for ourselves, that belonged to us.

Gavin I remember seeing you on guitar and bass and maybe even drums once 83 & 84.

Gavin Von Em BIP : So there was a conviction here that it wasn’t good enough just to imitate stuff we saw and heard in New York — that attaching yourself, or attaching your band or your other talents, to someone else’s scene was an easy, lazy way to avoid making stuff of your own, to avoid being in the center of something that was actually happening in real-time, where great things and ridiculous mistakes could both be possible. We didn’t fear failure. And we often achieved it!
Yeah, I played drums and guitar on a few records after BiP, then wrote for magazines for awhile, then started doing graphic design. I’m subject to multiple modes of artistic failure.

Mark Empire BIP : Pssh…don’t get me started about failure.

Gavin Von Em BIP : [Next is some interesting/weird BiP trivia] Among the people who answered the original BiP ad (in the Aquarian, a NJ hippie weekly, in Feb. 1982): Dave Scott of Adrenalin OD, apparently looking to trade up; bassist Tom Shad, later of a million projects including Dumptruck and the Blue Man Group, and the notorious literary fraud Laura Albert, a.k.a. ‘JT Leroy,’ who was at the time pretending to be “a blind American musician and songwriter.”

So believe it or not, the early lineups of BiP could have been even weirder.

This isn’t totally relevant, but my first punk band, Johnny Saline & the Abortionz, had split up after playing a couple of shows because the 23-year-old singer thought he was too old to be playing with 14/15-year old kids. The drummer was a very early member of the Cro-Mags, and is the guy standing in the middle on the sleeve of the first Agnostic Front EP.

In late 1983, this trend continued when I got kicked out of BiP for being too young to play City Gardens. About 6 months later I rejoined on bass, in the lineup that recorded the album. There’s a whole lot of early studio stuff from 1983, like two albums’ worth, that none of us have listened to since then.

Fred: The genius that was Fred…
Fred Buccholz was a quiet, nerdy guy who was heavily into ’60s psych music and who just fell into punk/hardcore by accident when Kyle asked him to play in BiP. Fred was not like mere mortals. He drove a primer-black Fredmobile that he built from parts of various early-’60s cars, with an interior made out of plywood and hardware-store items (the glove compartment had door hinges and a fencepost latch).
He fixed things obsessively. Every physical object Fred owned had been Fredulated. Cliff, you remember that one Ovation Breadwinner that Fred played in your band?

Totally- Fred played in Lesser KooDoo. Looking back now I think Fred experiences Aspergers.

Gavin Von Em : Oh, totally Spectrum. He bought that Ovation from me when he was down to like six homemade Fred Special guitars.
Or actually, when he’d used the parts off every guitar he had building those Fred Specials. Greg Walker just found one in his basement.
It’s like a thick green plank with a neck bolted on and $1,000 worth of vintage parts on it.

Yes Fred is crafty,Yes very Devo, Loved that.

Gavin Von Em BIP : The red one with the steel strips bent into a guitar-body shape — that was some punk.

We did record 4 song Lesser KooDoo demo with Fred in 87 or early 88 that may surface one of these days.

Gavin Von Em BIP : But anyway, every piece of guitar equipment in this band was Fredulated into this beautiful space junk.
First came the power sander, then the parts got swapped everywhere, then came the weird custom innovations — switches with LEDs, Radio Shack kits built into things…
The absolute pinnacle of Fred Genius was when our Fred-Customized tour van broke down on the highway in the middle of Kansas.
It blew a head gasket at like 1AM. There was nothing around for miles. We were like, “Oh shit, now what are we going to do?”
Fred goes under the hood with his toolbox and you hear banging, clattering, and cursing for about ten minutes.
He comes back in and is like, “Heh. Give me a couple of album covers.” A few minutes later he’s like, “Gimme the road atlas.”
Then he comes back and says, “Heh. Got any extra guitar strings?” And then he opens the driver’s door, sits in the seat, looks back with the most innocent of smiles, and buckles his seatbelt. The van starts, we drive away. Not only did Fred fabricate and replace a head gasket out of duct tape, album covers, a road atlas, and some guitar strings. The van got better gas mileage afterward….For over 6,000 miles. And for all we know, to the present day. 1970 Ford Econoline, btw. With an interior built out of plywood with hardware-store accoutrements. If anyone has seen it, please send a report.

Classic Fred , That’s amazing.

Mark Empire BIP : Much like Fred, I stumbled onto hardcore myself. I’d just started college and my dorm room just happened to be next door to Chris’. Anyway, he was jamming one night with a bassist and drummer and I got behind the kit for a couple songs. The drummer whose kit I was using was one of these exact, Neil Peart types who played Rush note for note. I, on the other hand, played like I was having a seizure.
At one point, he began yelling, “JUST TAKE IT EASY, OK?? JUST…JUST TAKE IT EASY” in my face mid-song.
The next morning, I was in Chris’ room and the drums were still set up and he put the BIP record on. I got on the drums and started goofing on Demolition Mission for like 30 seconds. Next thing I know, later that day, Chris is asking me to try out. I said yeah, obviously not knowing what I was getting myself into. Couldn’t really play it, either. I still can’t. I was only in the band for like 8 months, really, but it was probably the most memorable 8 months of my life. Certainly the most unglamorous musical genre I’ve ever been a part of. Polar opposite of anything MTV was shoving down our throats, which is what I loved about it. That and the speed (of the music)…

Gavin Von Em BIP : Sometime in late 1984, we were opening for Scream in Baltimore in some warehouse space, and we were doing soundcheck. Wayne had an economics final the next day, and he studied all the way the way down to the show. So onstage before the show, he’s sitting behind his kit with the textbook open on his floor tom, hitting the snare over and over, as you do, still studying. Then the soundman says to hit the toms one by one, and he shifts the textbook over to his snare and starts doing the toms. We were laughing at him like, “Hey Wayne, you need to give up these pie-in-the-sky dreams of being an accountant. You need to be practical and stick with punk-rock drumming.”
I tell someone this story every year on 9/11. The punch line is, “If only he’d listened!” And it’s not really funny.

Well the music biz is hard life. So if it’s not one thing it’s another.

Gavin Von Em BIP : There are some things about Wayne on 9/11 that nobody talks about. There were difficult, rage-inducing details that are still too vivid.

Yes maybe out of respect for Wayne’s family we leave out horrid details.

Gavin Von Em BIP : They’ve never gotten over it.

Who could? Just learn to live with loss.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Loss is hard, but this was just awful.

I think we’re got a great story here.add any additional influences or rival bands that you threw rotten eggs at ?
Can you tell the story behind the BIP album who wrote what and where it was recorded and how’d it happen? My own band had difficult time getting money to record as we’re broke and we have kids.

Gavin Von Em BIP : We used to piss off Adrenalin OD by opening sets with their opener, ‘AOD vs. Godzilla.’ Now it seems kind of lame. Now with Facebook, there are so many better ways to piss off Adrenalin OD!

Mark Empire BIP : We had no rivals. Kyle looking like Charles Manson was pretty tough to beat.

The spraypainted BIP Album cover was classic.

Gavin Von Em BIP : The album was done at The Sanctuary, which is the studio responsible for making most early NJ hardcore records sound bad.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Also visiting bands. DRI did their Peace Compilation track there, but Kurt apparently used his own snare. So the drums sound like a beautiful snare drum in a sea of midrangey thunka-thunka cardboard. The Sanctuary guys had no idea what they were doing. Except if you wanted to go somewhere else, the only studios we knew about were Mix-O-Lydian in Boonton and Reel Platinum in Fairlawn, where the Misfits recorded. They were something like $40/hr, while Sanctuary was $30. We couldn’t afford it.

How did the album get released and distributed. I’d like to hear ’bout old school network pre-internet.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Like how people communicated and information was passed around? Because that’s really interesting. It’s the key thing about the ’80s hardcore scene that nobody seems to have discovered yet. Among the silly things I’ve done is that I wrote most of the east coast hardcore entries for the current edition of ‘Volume: The International Discography of the New Wave.’ I don’t want to be all like, “I’m one of the foremost experts on hardcore punk.” Except I sort of am.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Yes I think you are.

Gavin Von Em BIP : I spent some time as a working rock critic, wrote some stuff for Rolling Stone, etc.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I am not even an expert on BIP cause I can’t remember large portions of the past due to chemo.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Chemo = our version of Emo!

Gavin Von Em BIP : No, I was going to say that the BIP album is kind of shockingly early for an album from NY/NJ/PA.
It didn’t seem so at the time…

Do you guys self produce it or did it get made with Buy Our Records?

Kyle Eaves BIP : Fred and I paid for it and BIP let us use their name to promote

Gavin Von Em BIP : But in terms of hardcore albums, there was the Nihilistics, Kraut, and Heart Attack from Long Island, and a Little Gentlemen album from Philadelphia… If it wasn’t for those punk labels alot of bands would not have been recorded or heard beyond their towns. And then all that strange Mutha Records stuff that barely made it outside of Long Branch.

The Philly hardcore comp and the Dirt comp.

Gavin Von Em BIP : There were lots of 7″ EPs, but albums were really uncommon. Well, compilations, yeah. NY was still all about 7″ comps with the Big City releases. Plus the NY Thrash tape, which was a tape. Kyle, why did we do an album instead of an EP?

Kyle Eaves BIP : I don’t know much about EPs and I thought we had enough songs for the LP. Never really thought about doing an EP.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Even Boston only had about 6 or 7 12″ hardcore records at that point. AT THE TIME, it seemed like everyone was doing it… But when you go through the actual releases, there weren’t many at all.

West coast bands and DC bands had albums- the bigger punk bands from NYC and UK had albums,so why not right

Gavin Von Em BIP : Seriously, count the DC albums. Government Issue, Minor Threat, Second Wind, Scream…

Our bands from the 80’s never got on vinyl,we could only afford cassette releases.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Yeah, it’ss weird now that we had the audacity.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I did not know any of this. I was just focusing on doing our thing.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Yeah, most bands only released cassettes. And there’s a real bias among collectors and critics that unfairly privileges vinyl releases as releases that ‘officially’ happened… When most of the stuff that people actually made and listened to is on cassettes, and has never been re-released.

Well if it’s not one thing it’s another, I mean when Fear came out with the record,it was far more well produced than other bands, I think it stood out, because most punk sounded like garage bands cause that’s what people could afford.

Gavin Von Em BIP : The Germs album sounded pretty great.

Kyle Eaves BIP : We had a shoestring budget for sure.

Gavin Von Em BIP : I remember it being a money thing.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Someone suggested it and I did not know better.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Probably AOD.

Kyle Eaves BIP : probably an issue always is, money.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Many tears have been shed over the NJxHC scene’s allegiance to Sanctuary.

Kyle Eaves BIP : You do what you can.

Gavin Von Em BIP : But it was also out of the question to record in NYC. It had to be in NJ somehow.

Kyle Eaves BIP : seems appropriate probably more expensive in NYC.

Gavin Von Em BIP : AOD later found that amazing place in East Orange where all those soul and disco records had been recorded.
And the rest is history, I guess.

Kyle Eaves BIP : We had too many line-up changes to record well after that 1st record. AOD had more continuity
We had enough material, but not enough backing hence lack of money.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Aah, well after I was out, you didn’t have a Curious Squirrel who wrote a million songs and wanted to do weird things.

Who did most of the writing ?

Gavin Von Em BIP : Well… I didn’t write lyrics hardly at all.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I wrote lyrics. I know Bill wrote some and Jeff – Democracy or Die is the only song. I wrote some of the music.

Gavin Von Em BIP : Greg Walker wrote the music to ‘Bodies in Panic.’

Kyle Eaves BIP : Mike Pek wrote the chorus lyrics, but he wrote chickens without heads but I changed it to penguins

Greg Walker is amazing.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Gavin you and I wrote the verse lyrics one day in your basement together

Gavin Von Em BIP : I’ve forgiven Greg for kicking me out of the band in 1983, but [cough cough] timing problem. By the time he joined Pleased Youth, he got a lot sharper.

What do you hope to bring to the table for this upcoming reunion show,do you have a set list in mind,and is there any chance of a future beyond the reunion show ?

Gavin Von Em BIP : I’m ADHD-I (the non-hyper kind that they usually diagnose in girls). I’m on a shit-ton of speed at all times. I also have the ‘paradoxical’ reactions to it — it makes me sleepy.

Kyle Eaves BIP : We have 10 songs as of now and a new song in the works for the show. We may do more recording after the show but live is unlikely

Gavin Von Em BIP : The new song is called ‘Who Took a Shit In the Dip-Da-Dip-Da-Dip?’ It’s doo-wop.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Actually it’s called Hamster Hide Away.

Gavin Von Em : He’s lying. It’s called, ‘By the Time I Get to Phoenix.’ It’s about the ’85 tour, and how we never got to Phoenix. We’ll be settling old scores. Oh yes. If Kyle kicks me out of the band this time, it won’t be because I’m too young. It’ll be because I’m…well, too me.

Favorite shows ?
Favorite shows: Archer (on the FX channel).
Top Gear (the real British version, not the ridiculous US one).
Uh, Anthony Bordain.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Yes on Bordain.

Gavin Von Em BIP : ‘Danzig With the Stars’ — the show about shooting Glenn Danzig into outer space.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I liked City Cardens, Anthrax and Baltimore as my favorite place to play. CG for the great bands we got to play with and Antrax and Baltimore for the great crowds. Catasaqua was very fun also.

Gavin Von Em BIP : The Ramones show(s) at City Gardens were kind of epic.

Kyle Eaves BIP : And Gavin no more kicking of any kind, you are a lifetime member now,Show Place with the DKs. The show at the Union Rec hall with pretty much all of the NJ bands was fun.

Gavin Von Em BIP : He’s not telling you that I tried to make the current band play ‘Red’ by King Crimson. That almost got me bounced — or should have.

Yes I agree Gavin is brilliant, he deserves to be the guy who brought it all together guy and placed the ad in the Aquarian want ads.

Kyle Eaves BIP : At this point, we can add people but no one is getting kicked out

Gavin Von Em BIP : But then imagine you have to be that guy your whole life. Where do you hide from him if he’s you?

Kyle Eaves BIP : Kind of like the Supreme Court appointed for life.

Gavin Von Em BIP : The joy, the horror.

Kyle Eaves BIP : life is both

Kyle you mentioned Chemo, would you like to talk about you experience fighting cancer?
It’s ok to not go into it, just an opportunity if you like.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Mantle cell lymphoma in small intestines. Hospitalized 111 days in a 1 year span around 03 and nearly died 4 times. Rough going for about 5 or 6 years but I work out in the pool now often and I am doing much better. I would not recommend cancer to anyone.

C&I : that’s amazing Kyle we are so glad you are with us.

Kyle Eaves BIP : I think about things I can do now and don’t worry about what I can’t do for peace of mind. For a while I kept thinking I was like half the person I used to be, but thinking about the past too much was unproductive to survival, got in the pool and turned things around.

Yes be positive, and live life.

Kyle Eaves BIP : Yes sir, not just a saying.

And laugh and have fun.

Kyle Eaves BIP : That is what BIP was at its best of times.

That’s a heavy bunch of years Kyle, we are so glad you made it so far, so excited for the band to do this reunion show.

Kyle Eaves BIP : A big factor for me to survive was my kids were young and I knew my wife needed my help and I did not want to leave them
plus I’m stubborn.

You have what it takes my friend, big love. Ok one last question for Gavin, if BIP was a boy band, who would get all the TWEEN attention ?

Gavin VonEm BIP : I’d like to think it would be me, but if ‘tweens were going to pay attention to any of us, it would’ve happened a long time ago.







Download Cliff and Ivy’s EP! produced by KRAMER (Butthole Surfers, Ween, Low and more) with Don Bolles (The Germs, 45 Grave) on drums!

Compared to Siouxsie and the Banshees, Sisters of Mercy, this EP has received many great reviews- find out what Alaska’s only goth band sounds like!

Meet The Can Can Heads- A Band From Finland

Can Can Heads: Raine Liimakka (guitars etc) Janne Mäki-Turja (drums) Tomi Nuotio (bass) Mikko Lehtonen (vocals) Janne Martinkauppi (saxophones)
Butter Life is the second full-length from Finland’s Can Can Heads, the previous one Headcracking Lifestyle came out in 1999. Butter Life will be released on vinyl as an edition of 300 copies. The album can be heard in its entirety at: Album artwork:
Can Can Heads is a nest of contradictions, twists and surprises. It’s violent music with a gentle heart. The band’s front man doesn’t sing. Or play an instrument. He occupies the space on stage where a lead singer usually resides. And gyrates. Generally, the bass is as close as the band gets to a lead instrument. The music is convulsive and jerky, but manages to reach a hypnotic state. It’s like tribal music made by a quintet consisting of misfits and contrarians. Hailing from a barn in the flood-prone flatlands of Bothnia in western Finland, Can Can Heads has been kicking against the pricks for over two decades. They’ve managed to avoid all contact with the roaming searchlights of media attention by skulking from one margin to another: punk, no wave, free jazz, noise. All this goes into a blender and out comes something the band itself tends to call “Ramones meets Albert Ayler”. Others might call it skronk. Butter Life is not smooth and it’s not creamy. It sizzles and scrapes, raking its lo-fi nails from your scapula down to the small of your back. – Arttu Tolonen




Please consider being a friend to the bats! Download this great compilation- CLIFF AND IVY are proud to be on it with other fantastic bands from all over the world! All bands have donated goth tunes to help rescue and rehabilitate bats.





Like an unholy cross between the Cramps and The Birthday Party, this band is outta control in someone’s basement in Prague!


This is a great track evocative of shoe-gaze, goth and Joy Division with a touch of Deftones! Grandiose and majestic!





Deathrockin great cover from the legendary Rikk Agnew, Gitane Demone, and Silke Berlinn! Los Angeles goth royalty!


Awesome track from this top band, goth royalty from Greece!


Review: Cliff And Ivy – Springtide Of Pure Reason

Thank you Leonard’s Lair!,

Leonard's Lair Music Reviews

Marketing themselves as Alaska’s only goth band, Cliff and Ivy are formed around husband and wife team Cliff Monk and Ivy Silence. Whilst it’s hard to deny their claim for local honours, ‘Springtime OF Pure Reason’ is certainly a pleasingly ambitious record which encompasses a breadth of genres.

Cliff And Ivy EP Cover

‘Get Up’ ensures the EP sets off to a fun, punky start where chanted vocals mix with swirling keyboards and wild guitar shapes. The staccato vocals and playful arrangement prove that comparisons with Devo are entirely justified. The next track is the same song but in “explicit” form so we can only assume the first version is for a family goth audience. After this punchy beginning, the group are in a sombre and more reflective mode for ‘Lost Your Soul’. Revolving around a simple descending (yet highly addictive) keyboard hook, the song immediately grabs your attention, whilst the doomy chorus is reminiscent…

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WE SERVE NO MASTER artwork by Ivy Silence


Welcome to  WE SERVE NO MASTER Issue #1: SUPERMOON. Join us for INTERVIEWS, REVIEWS, MUSIC, ART and anything else we can get away with. We are Cliff and Ivy, Alaska’s only goth band. We bring you goth, deathrock, art, and punk realness from the extreme darkness of the frozen north. Contents of SUPERMOON House of Extreme Darkness and  Cliff and Ivy 2014 (c)





NEW– Please enjoy this issue of WE SERVE NO MASTER while listening to our new podcast on Mixcloud!


Martin YOUTH Glover: Legendary producer, Killing Joke bassist, who recently produced and played on Peter Murphy’s latest album Lion, and is working with the new PINK FLOYD album. Youth will inspire you to see the energy in what you dream! Read what he shares with us about the most important things!

Ron Reyes: from Red Cross, Black Flag, and now with Piggy! Ron opens up about his music and philosophy of life.  Do not miss these important words from someone who started it all!

Don Bolles: Musician and performer with many groundbreaking bands- The Germs, 45 Grave, Celebrity Skin, and more. Don Bolles shares his expert view on what matters! You will enjoy what he has to say because you simply must- here’s your chance to see into a brilliant creative mind!

Lauren Curtis: A full time artist, Lauren’s gothic visual art and handmade jewelry is in high demand by collectors. Lauren is also a performer, appearing in the TV show Oddities, has earned a feature in Ripley’s Believe it Or Not, and works as a side show performer! Read about Lauren and what inspires her to create dark and beautiful things.

Pleased Youth: The 1980s hardcore punk band from the bowels of suburban New Jersey, with a name that even pisses off punks. Pleased Youth are back and poised to annoy! Pleased Youth bring you original hard core truth. If you were there you will feel joy. If you weren’t there you need to read this!


Ivy Silence reviews the latest album from Peter Murphy- Lion, and gets blown away by its’ roar


Sacred Spiders NEW VIDEO: HAARP

Cliff and Ivy LIVE ON STAGE

Cliff and Ivy WE ARE A GOTH BAND





Artwork by Ivy Silence

Martin Glover: Love, Cats, Tea and a Smoke

Martin “YOUTH” Glover is the legendary bassist for Killing Joke and magical producer of many brilliant projects. To name a few: Killing Joke, The Fireman (his project with Paul McCartney), The Orb, The Verve, Peter Murphy, Echo and the Bunnymen, and Alien Sex Fiend. He’s also an artist, writer, DJ and he owns the Butterfly records label. Here he talks to Cliff and Ivy:

C&I: You’ve seen a lot of different creative eras and manifestations, what’s one thing people can do to prepare for music of the future?
MG: Be aware of what’s going on. As it’s always going on somewhere … media, the internet and best of all going out to record shops and gigs.
C&I: What’s one thing you would tell the DIY musician of today about creativity?
MG: Don’t be afraid to steal ….copy copy copy until you’re close. Don’t let your ego get in the way of the Orphic voice.
C&I: Have you noticed any patterns of similarity among your projects over time, if so what are they?
MG: Hopefully they are mostly all good, if not great! I work in many genres and styles. I avoid formulas however there are some specific things that I’ve kept making, remaking, as I still haven’t found the definitive version.
C&I: What is an average day like for Youth?
MG: I’m so lucky to not have two days the same really. Different artists, engineers, roles change though. Usually up around 9am. I have a creative house full of artists and engineers every day that all kicks in around 11 and then were at it till around 9pm. Depends though, and I get out to gigs, art, etc.
C&I: What would you say brings you the most comfort?
MG: Love in your heart … a beach with a gentle surf … A cat in your lap, a nice cup of tea, and a good smoke.
C&I: When were you sure that you would do music and art the rest of your life? Was there a particular event that showed you this?
MG: Punk rock.
C&I: What’s one thing that you think all musicians should be doing but are not doing?
MG: Too much rehearsing, not enough playing.
C&I : There is much available on the internet about you. Which website should we highlight so our readers can learn more about you and get your music and art?
MG: No ideas but try my Facebook.

Thank you Martin for your time, much love and respect, Cliff and Ivy







Ron Reyes 1

Ron Reyes: Punk Rock Matters

Ron Reyes is a punk rock legend! He’s the original drummer for Red Cross/Kross and the second singer for Black Flag. You can see him in the infamous Decline and Fall of The Western Civilization documentary film. He’s a family man in Vancouver British Columbia, and currently playing guitar in Piggy!

C&I: What goes on with you and how are you spending your summer?
RR: Well these last couple months I have been very busy. Catching up for lost time. I’ve been having a lot of fun with Piggy. We got a new singer. Her name is Ange Trash and she will not be taking any prisoners, that is for sure. I’ve been setting up a little home studio for writing and recording demos. That has been fun. My kids are all over the place. Traveling the world, starting home businesses, graduating high school, joining bands, learning to drive. All kinds of fun.
C&I: What is your musical background? Did you study music as a child and what kind of music did you listen to growing up?
RR: I have noooooooo formal training at all. The school of punk rock is all I got. I gotta ask my bass player Lisafurr-“hey what note am I playing?” She tells me then a minute later I forget.
C&I: What made you want to play punk rock?
RR: Well before that it was just too daunting of a task, and quite frankly I just was not inspired to “play” music. I played around a little with buddies in high school but nothing came from those early efforts. But when I heard bands like Wire, and Eater, the Germs, Ramones etc. it just made sense to me. So I picked up whatever instrument that was around and started beating on it as loud as I could.
C&I: Do you think punk rock has made a difference?
RR: Hey, whatever gets you through the night. For some it’s music, for some it’s sports, art, philosophy, religion, and politics whatever. For me the main thing I got out of it was a sense of energy and accessibility. Something I could grasp and run with. But to tell you the truth while I can honestly say that punk rock music will always be special to me I will not be confined to its borders.
C&I: I know our readers will want to know about your times with Black Flag. What was the best of times and what was the worst of times?
RR: Well I would say that the best times were spent as a fan. Watching the band. Being in the band has had its moments and I am grateful for them. But I’m glad to put it behind me now. The 2013 Black Flag episode should never have happened. It was not supposed to be Black Flag. Greg and I were just gonna try and make some music. The subject of Black Flag never came up till the very end. How I was talked into that I will never know. It really sucks ‘cause I went into it with hope and promise and respect. But in the end I left with nothing but contempt.
C&I: Besides music, what do you like to do for fun and relaxation?
RR: Now that my kids are grown I’m finding more time for music which is very very fulfilling. I work hard and I come home to a great girl that married me 27 years ago. I keep it simple and quiet for the most part.







Don Bolles photo by CliffMonk

Don Bolles photo by CliffMonk

Don Bolles: Got A Few Hours?

C&I: Hi Don. Please give our readers a bit of history of bands you’ve played in and projects you’ve produced.
DB: Got a few hours?

LA PUNK GOTH DEATHROCK GLAM LEGEND DON BOLLES is known for playing drums in the Germs, 45 Grave and Celebrity Skin and many more that he’s sat in and recorded with a huge list of bands of many styles over the years, since the mid ‘70s until now. Bolles has also Donned the hat of producer and DJ in clubs and on radio, Let’s find out what’s new with the always captivating Don Bolles!

C&I: Don thanks for talking with us and what’s going on with you these days?
DB: Recording with Ariel Pink’s Haunted Graffiti. I’m doing drums and vocals and guitar. It’s going to be a double LP: The Pink Album. Good stuff. He’s really on a roll right now with the songwriting. I’m also producing some bands, like Panthar and Water Tower. Plus I’m working on a documentary about LA Punk rock with Geza X.
C&I: All that sounds great. Ariel Pink’s Haunted Graffiti double album with Don Bolles will be on which label? Looking forward to hearing this and your producing work with Panther and Water Tower. Can you give our readers first insight into the new documentary you’re involved with Geza X about the LA PUNK SCENE?
DB: Ariel’s on 4-AD. The documentary is about the LA Punk Scene, starting around 1972 with the pre-punk Glitter and Street Rock scenes, then the Hollywood punks, then the South Bay, OC etc. The film will cover all that went on with all that, up until around the point where the documentary American Hardcore starts, when punk splintered off into a million new genres, including “Hardcore”.
C&I: Don, you are an avid vinyl record collector and history buff on some of the most obscure releases, what are some of your favorite new vinyl finds?
DB: I have a lot of odd records. Some of my fave new acquisitions are… SOUNDS OF THE JUNKYARD on Folkways (you know about that one – I got it from your yard sale stuff); got a copy of the super rare “Eight Seasons of Chromolox” LP a month or two ago. Also just got back one of the records that some creep stole from me (there were over a hundred); it was one of 3 autographed Nico LPs this jerk stole. The Marble Index. She wrote “To Don – Do & Die” on the back. I got her to sign 3 albums when she stayed at my house in like 1983.
C&I: That’s amazing, so cool you got that personal one back of Nico, yes it was my pleasure to gift you with the Sounds of the Junkyard when you visited Cliff and Ivy’s house in Alaska last year to play with us, thank you it was great to have you, hope to work together again.
Don you had an art show of telephone flyers of missing animals hundreds of missing animal posters last year in LA, do you have any other collections or upcoming art projects you can share with our readers?
DB: I just collect weird shit, basically. Records take up a lot of space in my place.



Don Bolles and Lauren Curtis photo by CliffMonk


Don Bolles and Lauren Curtis photo by CliffMonk









Lauren Curtis photos courtesy of Lauren Curtis

Lauren Curtis: Art is Alive, Believe It Or Not

Visual Artist, Jewelry Maker, Side Show Performer, and featured in Ripley’s Believe It Or Not!

Lauren Curtis is a full time artist living in New Jersey. She draws upon many influences, like the goth scene, nature, mythology and mysticism. She also makes original jewelry, featuring goth, punk, and steampunk imagery. Lauren has been growing her fingernails for YEARS! Her beautiful 18 inch long natural living sculptures recently brought her to the attention of Ripley’s Believe It Or Not! We caught up with Lauren aka Talon the Nail Lady to learn more!

C&I: What early experiences in your life brought you to art?
LC: My dad was my 1st influence…he was an excellent artist who focused on nature illustration, painting and carving and was my 1st teacher. I then had some great art teachers in Jr. High & High School that helped me realize that art is what I wanted as a career and that it could be done!
C&I: Do you draw upon any historical influences for your art? Are there any artists, musicians or other things that feed your creativity?
LC: Edward Gorey (illustrator) has been an influence for many years and I was lucky enough to actually speak to him on the phone shortly before he died! I collect his books, found his #…listed!…and called to ask where to purchase signed copies of his work. He was very friendly and helpful. Since I was a kid, ancient Egyptian, Greek/Roman and Celtic art and mythology have also been a huge influence as well as Wiccan/Pagan spiritual paths, which have strong roots in those ancient cultures.
C&I: Much has been written about art and the body. Your art brings in many themes- the human body, bodies from the animal world, and nature, even inner “hidden” bodies. Where does the “body” end and “art” begin, in your opinion?
LC: To me, Nature (which includes humans) IS art, so the body is art as well, which is why I’ve been fascinated with body art/modification…could be an unconscious reason I’ve been growing my nails for so long! Also, when you look at the shape & color of a flower, bones, feathers, etc. it’s really amazing and sculptural! Art is everywhere!
C&I: What is your main medium now? (painting/drawing, performance?)
LC: I don’t really have one main medium as the materials I choose all depend on the piece itself and the look and feel I want it to have but I’ve been doing a lot of collage and mixed medium work lately. I also love oil painting and photography and do a lot of pen & ink illustration work for clients/collectors.
C&I: You’ve shown your art in diverse places and spaces. Please tell our readers about 2 of your favorite places/ways your art is (or was) shown, and why.
LC: Doing alternative art/music events in rock & goth clubs in NJ & NYC is always a blast! It’s a great way to meet people with like minds, show my work, hear great music and have fun! I’ve also been enjoying exhibiting in new gallery spaces that are opening up in unique places like spiritual centers, historic buildings, etc. A nice change from the usual spaces.
C&I: What’s great about being an artist today?
LC: There are so many opportunities today…so many new types of places and events to participate in and with the internet and social networking it’s so easy to connect with artists, clients and collectors from across the globe! I think also that art is finally being recognized as a legitimate career and the crappy “starving artist” stereotype is dying out.
C&I: You’ve recently been featured in the show Oddities, and now (June 2014) you have been featured in Ripley’s Believe it or Not! These are great achievements, and I know our readers would like to know a little more about how these came to be! Can you share a short story or two about this?
LC: Both were very exciting and fun! I was contacted via Facebook a couple of years ago about being on Oddities…the casting director saw my profile, loved my crazy nails and my x-ray artwork and asked if I wanted to be on the show. At first I thought it was a scam, lol, but when I checked everything out it was the real deal so I gladly agreed. They came to my eclectic apartment to film as it looks like a miniature version of the Addams Family house, plus all my artwork is here so it was a good location. We really had a blast during the shoot! It was insane seeing it on TV! I believe the episode (1st aired in Dec. 2011) is called “Fingernails & Just for Males” if anyone wants to look it up.

As for Ripley’s, I’ve always been fascinated with all things odd and unusual and have always been a fan of Ripley’s so I visited their website and submitted myself as a potential “Believe it or Not” since the fingernails on both of my hands are about 18+ inches long and real…and I create all my art by hand, so thought they’d be interested…and they were! On June 7, 2014 I was made into one of their weekly, national newspaper and website cartoons!! That was so cool to see! And it got a great response online as well.
C&I: Are you more in the public eye now based on Ripley’s and more exposure for you and your art? What does that look like for you (performances, appearances, merch?)
LC: These opportunities definitely boosted my exposure as an artist and increased my Facebook/online fan base and boosted sales…of my fine art as well as my t-shirts, jewelry, etc. So now I have to find the next way to keep the momentum going! I’ve actually been participating in some big sideshows too…in NJ & NYC at Coney Island, which I did a few years ago. I appear as “Talon the Nail Lady” and do photo ops and sell my wares…those events are a lot of fun and I always meet interesting, talented, out-of-the-box people!

C&I: It’s now 3014. Historians have discovered a cache of your art, almost perfectly preserved! What will they understand about your work? What would they share with artists of the future?
LC: I hope they would see interesting content that makes them think and also see that I had a respect for various cultures, for nature and for different spiritual paths but that I also questioned things and didn’t just take things at face value or believe things just because the media or “powers that be” told me to. It would also be great if my work inspired people to go for their goals and do something that makes them happy for a career and that it can be done…you don’t have to fit the stereotypical “norm”! And, that there really is no “normal”, which is a good thing! I also hope I don’t fall into the category of artists whose work doesn’t make much money until after they’re dead! LOL
C&I: Where can people learn more about you ? Where can people go (on the web or in person) to buy your art, jewelry, T shirts, etc?
LC: I have many websites, a blog, social networking pages people can find me on, connect and see & purchase my work (I welcome commissioned pieces and freelance work as well)… (NEW fine art site!) (now on Twitter) (my Blog) (Facebook Fine Art Page) (commercial & fine art) (cards, T-shirts, photography, illustration)

Ripley's Believe It or Not! - rp_c140607.tif








Pleased Youth early group shot 1(2)

Pleased Youth early 80’s: Doug Vizthum, Greg Walker, Paul Decolator RIP, Dave Scott Schwartzman, Andy Skovran

Please Youth: VIVA Pleased Youth!

Infamous New Jersey punks Pleased Youth tell us about their story which started in the early 80’s. NJF (New Jersey’s Finest) spawned Pleased Youth and they released a cassette demo “Sure We’re Pleased”. Then came a full album “Dangerous Choo Choo” on NJ Punk label Buy Our Records. There’s talk of a reunion show in the fall 2014!
PY Members include Paul Decolator (RIP) Rhythm guitar, Andy Skovran bass, Doug Vizthum lead guitar, Dave Scott Schwartzman vocals, Greg Walker drums, Keith Hartel vocals Bass/guitar.

Paul Decolator 1Andy Skovran 1doug vizthum 1Paul and Keith 2Greg Walker 1Paul and Keith 3

Cliff and Ivy have known the guys in PY since 1983 hailing from the New Brunswick, New Jersey punk rock scene and are happy to help share their history with you here.

C&I: Pleased Youth. Please give our readers some history of the band.

PY Keith Hartel: I’ll jump in here but I knew the band first as a fan. Cliff, you probably first saw them at the same shows, opening for DRI, Suicidal Tendencies and 7 Seconds. Their original frontman was Dave Scott and they made a killer demo.

C&I: Yes saw some great shows with Dave Scott the drummer of Adrenalin OD as the original front man of Pleased Youth and love the PY demo. I heard a rumor that it may be reissued, any news?

PY Keith Hartel: Now that Paul is dead, Doug is in charge of guiding PY’s future legacy, so we’ll have to wait for him to weigh in. I think it would be great to put it out. It’s the modern equivalent of the old Library of Congress rural blues field recordings, I think.

PY Doug Vizthum: I moved around the block from Paul in North Brunswick. I met him at a punk show at the Court. I started going over his house and we started planning getting NJF back together. Since Chris their drummer moved to Utah we even had Danny Shields from Detention playing drums and practiced at Shields gym. Harpo joined the Navy and that kind of ended that. Meanwhile me and Paul continued playing and writing material. We met Greg at shows and Dave ended up singing, Andy was still into playing and we kind of evolved from there.

As far as the demo being released we don’t know where the masters are. Decolator had them but God knows where they are now. A local guy wanted to release them but who knows. I know Dave was selling the demo tape on Ebay and making money doing it. I would like to have a nice package done.

C&I: So PY was born out of NJF .New Jerseys Finest. Good luck on finding the missing masters. Please tell us more about the infamous release party at Ivy Silence’s apartment and what happened and how Keith entered the picture.

PY Doug Vizthum: We played a bunch of gigs and did 2 recording sessions with this line up. We started getting ready to release the Party on Doomsday ep, which was the Sure We’re Pleased demo. We all (Pleased Youth, AOD and The Buy Our Records guys) got together to take photos for the cover at Ivy’s Apartment in New Brunswick. The place was on the 3rd floor. Someone baked a cake that said Party on Doomsday with a mushroom cloud drawn on it. Someone has those pictures but who knows. Anyway, Paul and Andy decided that they wanted to throw Dave out. I knew this would be the death of the EP because it was essentially Dave and AOD’s label. Not only did they throw out Dave, they also threw a large chunk of the cake out the window on Dave’s car 3 floors below. This killed the EP and now we needed a new singer. We had a show opening up for Agnostic Front and Murphys Law at CBGB’s in a few weeks and we had Steve Cosmano fill in. That show was a hoot because Steve was scared shitless because Lunkhead, our song goofing on the NY skins, was in the set. We all survived and had another show planned up in PA in Allentown at the Catasauqua playground. Paul met Keith at Flaming Groovies/Captain Video in New Brunswick. Keith used to hang out there. Dennis and Jimmy from the Smithereens alternately owed it and Jeff from the Swingin’ Neckbreakers worked there. Paul said he found a 16 year old kid who knows the lyrics to our a songs and we picked him up at the store and he did the gig and stayed until the end of the band.

PLEASED YOUTH - demo cd-r front

C&I: Who came up with the name Pleased Youth and what does it mean to you?

PY Doug Vizthum: Paul came up with the name. We all hated it but we somehow got stuck with it. It was Decolator being Decolator. It was contradictory to the hardcore scene at the time. He just wanted to be a dick. And he accomplished that over and over again.

C&I: Original line up for PY was Doug Vizthum lead guitar, Paul Decolator rhythm guitar. Andy Skovran bass guitar. Greg Walker drums. Dave Scott Schwartzman on lead vocals, then later Keith Hartell on lead vocals and bass duties.

PY Doug Vizthum: Once Keith joined the band this line up recorded the Dangerous Choo Choo album. After the recording and many gigs Andy left the band. He lived up in Fairlawn in North Jersey and he got tired of the drive which was over an hour each way. When he left Keith said I’ll play bass and sing and within 3 weeks he learned all the songs on bass and we started to roll again. The 4 piece line up went on from here. We had all the songs written for the next record which Buy Our Records was going to pay for. We did a summer tour that took us all the way to Chicago. It ended up as a bit of a fiasco. At the end there was some issues with Paul and in the end the other guys kind of got fed up with it and they also wanted to do another band. They wanted to tour and I wasn’t in the position to do it. I had an apartment and a job. So in the end everyone quit except me. End way too many times.
PY Keith Hartel: Also, Paul had moved to Philly and that sort of exaggerated the 3 vs 1 vibe. As convenient as it would be to let the dead guy taking the blame I was the first to officially quit the band. In retrospect I wish we’d stuck it out long enough to at least make another album.
PY Doug Vizthum: Some of my favorite moments. Playing a Ice Rink in Muskegon MI with DOA and No Means No. We pull up and they’re playing floor hockey. These guys are all 6’7 and they yell over to us “want to play, eh”? Yeah right. We stayed at the promoter’s house with all the bands. When we got up the promoter says I’d offer you food but they ate everything in the house. Hahahahahaha. Another memory was playing Easter at a CBGB’s matinee with Scream from DC. When they played we were all standing in the back saying ” that drummer is amazing” who of course was Dave Grohl.

PY Greg Walker: I have very few regrets in life but not having it together enough to record another album is one of them. By the time the group broke up we were playing really tight and we had written a bunch of really good songs.
PY Doug Vizthum: We were really a machine at the end. We could have gone to another level. Woulda coulda shoulda.

C&I: Thanks guys, so we heard there’s to be a reunion of Pleased Youth, what can you tell our readers about the reformation and can we expect some new songs in the future?

PY Doug Vizthum: We are gearing up for some reunion shows. Keith is singing and playing guitar for Paul, me on guitar, Andy on bass and Greg on drums. One step at a time as far as new material. We want to do a few shows. Where we go to from there depends on how it all goes. If Dave comes up at some point he might be involved also.

C&I: So there was the Sure We’re Pleased Demo cassette with Dave Scott Swartzman on lead vocals,and then the Buy Our Records Release Dangerous Choo Choo featuring Keith on lead vocals, and then later Andy left the band and Keith took up the bass duties and lead vocals. I heard that there’s a live recording floating around from WFMU that may have some of those unreleased PY songs, any chance they’ll be released? For me the more thrashy early PY was what I was into when it was going down, but looking back at the Dangerous Choo Choo era, I do like it and I think you guys made some great rock music. Of course Keith is a great front man.

Pleased Youth Dangerous Choo Choo 1

PY Doug Vizthum: Keith made that reunion show great. He even showed up with spiky hair.

C&I: Great to hear. I’m sure your fans will be super excited for the reunion.
With the recent City Gardens documentary film out now, are there any stories you would like to tell about Paul Decolator’s Love/Hate relationship with concert promoter Randy Now?

PY Doug Vizthum: The Randy saga is pretty amazing. The twist to it all is my gal Tracy is one of his best friends from way back. She used to do the flyers for City Gardens. He’s a great guy and he’s giving her away at our wedding. Decolator always fought with anyone that could help advance the band. He had a fanzine, Tips and Tours,where he printed on the back cover RANDY NOW SUCKS DICK. He also printed that he was a brown toothed child molester. Randy actually let us play NY South, a club he booked in South Jersey. A band didn’t show up and we ended up playing before Suicidal Tendencies. Decolator never let up. He thought Randy was capitalizing on punk rock. Meanwhile he was a guy who loved the music and got burned. Paul just couldn’t stand him. It always pissed me off that we couldn’t play there. Paul did the same thing to Perry Feigenbaum who booked the Showplace. He made up with him though and we played some great gigs there. I’ll let Keith recap the (story about) Decolator plays City Gardens and gets thrown out. That is the capper. We did play with a lot of great bands. Black Flag, Circle Jerks, DOA, Agnostic Front, The Dicks, DRI, JFA, Butthole Surfers, The Freeze, Gang Green, Adolescents, MIA, Murphy’s Law, Scream, Dag Nasty, Heart Attack, 7 Seconds, No Means No, Aggression, Battalion of Saints, Bad Posture. There is a lot I’m forgetting. We played with AOD and Bedlam a ton. Also Cyanamid, who we all loved. It was a good run. In the 2 and half years we were together we packed in a lot of gigs. Probably a hundred.

C&I: We do remember quite a few of those shows, at the Court Tavern in New Brunswick NJ where Paul did book some all ages shows, Modern Artists studio in Rahway, Paul is God productions- where Cliff and Ivy’s first punk band The Gout supported Adrenalin O.D. and The Stretch Marks. Decolator put on an all ages 7 Seconds show at a local lodge or VFW hall, and a bar show PY supported MIA. Great shows and yes we attended a few of the NY South shows, and Ivy Silence even got her head stitched up from being up front at that Suicidal (Tendencies) show, the mosh pit was intense, we spent the second half of that show in the ER, thanks for driving Ivy to the ER Matt Thomas, lol. DOA and Pleased Youth at the showplace, great concert, and fun to hang out backstage with the bands that time. All the best of your upcoming wedding, sounds like a great time.
PY Doug Vizthum: Thanks. The Modern Art Hall was a story unto itself.

PY Keith Hartel: The story of how I met Paul is: 7 Seconds were my favorite band and I wrote them a fan letter. Kevin wrote back asking for info about local hardcore promoters so I called Pat Duncan during his show and he put me in touch with Decolator. I’d actually hung out with him when I recognized him at a Billy Idol concert at Rutgers some time before that. He was always sort of a local celebrity. Paul, that is…

PY Doug Vizthum: Learning something new.

PY Keith Hartel: And then he was gonna get me in the band and Doug initially kiboshed the idea because he was worried I was too young and we wouldn’t be allowed to play the Court! But eventually they came to the conclusion they had no other options! Let me also go on record that just like with AOD and Black Flag my favorite PY to listen to these days is the early Dave Scott stuff. On stuff I recorded with them I hate my voice. The musicianship is really good though, especially the interplay of Paul and Doug. So if we get a chance to do something with Dave I’d be tickled.

PY Doug Vizthum: It might be happening because he is coming up in October.
My favorite Dave story is we could never hear him sing. The first time we did was when we went in the studio. We were like wow that’s what you sound like.

PY Keith Hartel: I thought he was a very convincing hardcore singer and a great frontman.

PY Doug Vizthum: He did a good job.

C&I: To me Dave had a more malicious feeling where Keith being younger sounded happier. Actual singing I would suggest Keith is the more tuneful vocalist. Both could be interesting. May I suggest to go in the studio and lay something down when Dave is in town. Put out a single and a video. Please fill us in on who did the song writing for PY? Music and lyrics, Doug you said it started out with you and Paul on guitars…. Keith what was the song writing dynamic when you entered the band and how did it progress until the end of PY?
PY Keith Hartel: Paul and Doug pretty much wrote all the music. Usually they wrote their own lyrics. There were a few where Paul and I wrote the lyrics together and a few that I wrote the lyrics. A lot of the best songs were ones like Uncle Eli, where Paul came in with a simple chord progression that inspired Doug to come up with all sorts of guitar genius.
C&I: Great so which lyrics did you write?

PY Keith Hartel: The only lyrics I remember writing that were on the album are Being Alive and Thrashorama. The Fall, Let Down Again and Rock Against People I wrote with Paul. I’d say you may as well include Dave in the interview, he is the Keith Morris of Pleased Youth! Or the David Lee Roth.

PY Doug Vizthum: Lyrics were contributed by everyone. Paul wrote alot. Pain and the Sorrow, NBPS, Party on Doomsday, Lunkhead, I’d Rather Be An Asshole,The Calling, Life On An Edge, Dave wrote No Privacy, America, Obedience School , Soul Survivor. and PHD in LSD. Andy wrote Nightmare Reality. Greg wrote Different Interests. I wrote I was Poisoned, You’re Different than Me, and Global Mafia.

C&I: Excellent. Hi Dave Scott can you tell us some of your experience playing in the band and what the scene was like and how the recording of the PY demo went down.

PY Dave Scott Schwartzman: I came into the fold through Andy and Paul, who I knew from Green Shirts Suck and NJF. I think those guys saw me sing backup or something at a gig at Patrix and asked if I wanted to sing. We rehearsed in Greg’s basement and we were able to get some really good shows in New Brunswick. My favorite Pleased Youth shows were opening for Suicidal Tendencies to a capacity crowd at Randy Now’s NY South club, and Opening for The Dicks and Heart Attack at the Court Tavern. I don’t remember much about the cake episode but it’s probably true. Doug and Paul would argue at practice non stop and the rest of us would either laugh or encourage it. Fun Times. I had a great time at some of those shows and it was nice not to have to carry drums.

PY Doug Vizthum: Me and Paul fighting was a constant. We did it onstage a lot too. I thought it made the shows better. It made us play more angry. Hahahahaha

C&I: The ST and Dicks shows were amazing both Ivy and myself were at those, loved it. Some of our favorite shows of all time.

PY Keith Hartel: I second that Cliff, as well as 7 Seconds in Rahway!

PY Doug Vizthum: The Dicks show was great. The 7 Seconds show where they played on the risers was great too.

PY Dave Scott Schwartzman: Thinking back the more Paul and Doug would go at it, the more Andy would smile.

PY Doug Vizthum: Exactly

PY Keith Hartel: I’ve said it before, Decolator was the ultimate “frenemy” before the term was coined. Paul and Doug had an especially special adversarial relationship. How many times I’ve heard Doug say, “Fucking Decolator!”

C&I: on a side note, me and Ivy talked to Mike Muir before the ST gig at NY south and seeing how Stinky Steve Cosmano our pal and drummer of The Gout was sick in the hospital with something he was unable to see his fav band ST, so Mike Muir dedicated that show to Steve, haha.

PY Keith Hartel: I totally remember that! I remember you guys talking with him then on stage he said “They asked me to dedicate a song to him so I’m just gonna dedicate the whole set to him”. I’d have to say Fang ended up being my favorite from that day.

PY Doug Vizthum: I actually threw Decolator out of the Court because I caught him reaching over the bar and pouring his own beer. Bobby banned him and made him write an essay where he detailed all the fucked up stuff he did over the years and why should this get him thrown out. Hahahaha. I actually didn’t talk to him for years when we did the reunion in 2001. We made up and he seemed to make amends with a lot of people he pissed off over the years. He died 6 months or so after the reunion. Pretty fucked up.

PY Keith Hartel: I didn’t know that story about Paul and Bobby, that’s hilarious. So Decolator!

PY Dave Scott Schwartzman: Decolator and Harpo of NJF I believe did that at the Agnostic Front show at Patrix. I remember seeing Paul’s face upside down on the tap.

PY Keith Hartel: No one was ever as committed to always doing the wrong thing as Decolator, except maybe Bobby Ebz.

PY Dave Scott Schwartzman: Doug, I vaguely remember playing live on the radio, maybe on Bryan Bruden’s show? Do you remember that?

PY Keith Hartel: That was WPRB I think, Dave. I was there, but you were still singing.

PY Dave Scott Schwartzman: That would be it Keith. Anyone have that recording?

PY Doug Vizthum: If they did that at Patrix that’s excellent. I remember trying to break into their liquor room with Ebz. Hahahahaha. It was WPRB. I don’t think it was all that good. I don’t have that. I have a really good rehearsal tape from the Rubber Room from right before we recorded the Demo. That was Krishna Jain’s show on PRB.

C&I: So cool guys, love all this banter, thank you all so much and all the best on the upcoming shows, and beyond !
p.s. We hope you guys start a new chapter of the PY story. Fingers crossed.

Check out Pleased Youth on the web.






Peter Murphy LION
Released June 3 on Nettwerk
Produced by Youth
In learning more about this latest release from goth elder Peter Murphy, I discovered that he approached it with more or less a few ideas and not completely written out songs. This suits him well I guess as he has created a masterful group of tracks, true classic goth material, heavy and full of emotion. I would credit not only Murphy’s experience and talent with putting a feeling together in a song but the production of YOUTH. Each track is infinitely interesting, with an epic feel all its’ own. I would put this up against any pre-existing Peter Murphy albums, I feel it is one of his best. The LION ROARS.
The album starts with HANG UP which has heavy drums, and synth filling out the sonic space in waves. Peter Murphy really lets the angst out in his voice through the album, this song gets you started. The chorus is epic, and the lyrics are about spiritual masters, nakedness and transformation. Hanging up the phone- is this about giving up or giving in, as in surrender to transformation? This song has a textural wholness, it tries to take you over. I AM MY OWN NAME has middle eastern drone strings in the intro and throughout. Murphy has lived in Turkey for many years so it’s clear the music of this country is important throughout. This track has a catchy chorus which will stick with you. LOW TAR STARS- brings the dance, synth- post punk dance, pulsing with a great beat and it is dancefloor ready. Murphy’s great distinctive baritone voice comes through on COMPRESSION- the synth here is slow, cold sounding but magical. Look in the mirror- lest you forget- as Murphy intones in his entrancing baritone voice. All tracks have great traits but I will mention a few more of the standouts here. THE ROSE- offers great vocals with atmosphere- this one is cavernous, dark, and entrancing. The chord progressions are strong, epic and orchestral. It is so passionate- “throughout the darkest night- my song resounds”. THE GHOST OF SHOKAN LAKE – is a story telling song like a sea shanty, there’s a low vocal track layer under the higher main vocal, throughout which sounds very ghostly. This one turns into a rocker, through the chorus. The melody rises after the chorus- it swells under you like water, with orchestral sounds filling out the dangerous feeling. ELIZA- danceable, upbeat and it has a downwalking melody line. This track carries through an 80s style dark dance feel, I love it as it sounds like Sisters of Mercy. LOCTAIN brings all emotions to the front. It is a spacious love poem, flowing, gentle but still dark, as Murphy sings about “minutes like wings”. The song has an eerie strong presence, and evokes the ever present NOW which we all will lose someday as we cross over into…. ? This song is full of devastating emotion.
The presence of YOUTH is strong here, as he has co-written and played guitar, bass and synth as well as production and mixing. What a cool creative union as who could have guessed that this collaboration would happen, at this perfect time?
Catch THE LION by Peter Murphy if you like: David Bowie, Gary Numan, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Killing Joke










Los Angeles’ The Sacred Spiders have made this mighty music video featuring HAARP (Harmonic Auroral Research Project) which is in ALASKA and is said to control weather or at least create an aurora in the sky!  I cannot get enough of this video right now because it is so cool and fun, yet dark and fascinating. I love the rock star attitude and goth in your face that’s happening here! And the message!



View a documentary about CLIFF AND IVY Alaska’s only goth band!




Watch CLIFF AND IVY live onstage!